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#506284 - 09/05/14 02:14 AM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
zark Offline
Colonel_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: NSW, Oz
Hi guys,

Sorry for the delay, I haven't been on kickas for a while. Yes, I can still eat starch without issues. There have been a few moments where a teeny bit of inflammation crept in - peanuts are one thing that come to mind here. But each time the very modest amount of inflammation would be gone by the morning.

My neighbours are very kind, and keep me well supplied with "Natto".

-- Is it B. Subtilis? Or maybe something else? --
My neighbour has an unusual way of making her Natto - she doesn't add any culture at all. Bacteria will be getting into the soybeans from her skin, the environment, and possibly her breath. So there is no guarantee that this is in fact Bacillus Subtilis that is keeping my condition at bay, it could be some other flora from her or from the environment.. B. Subtilis is a super tough critter though, and should be quite ubiquitous in the environment (it is found in soil) so I still think it is highly likely to be the beneficial species.

With all that in mind, I made sure to freeze samples of her Natto - just in case.
_________________________
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)

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#506353 - 09/10/14 08:20 AM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
MORPHEUS Offline
New_Member

Registered: 08/20/13
Posts: 19
Loc: Focsani,Romania
Zark, maybe can you find out froom your neighbors with more details how they prepared the NATTO recipe ?!?

I'm sure there's no random in your remission with eating natto, something changed in your bacterial microflora once you have added a product so little used by peoples outside Asia .

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#506383 - 09/11/14 04:50 PM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
zark Offline
Colonel_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: NSW, Oz
She said that she doesn't add anything at all to it in terms of culture. The soybeans are of course boiled and then strained (possibly by hand, in which case flora could arrive from her body). The beans are then placed in a special device (I don't know what to call it, looks a bit like a rice cooker, lets call it an incubator for now) which she brought from Korea that keeps the beans at a stable temperature between 35-40c. It is left to incubate over a few days.. 2-3 days I think she said.

Actually B Subtilis is an extemophile and its spores can very easily survive being boiled, so it is quite possible that the culture is still present on the beans and in her incubator.

I don't know I could possibly ask her if it touches her hand when she strains the beans - she is an elderly Korean lady, and it might offend or cause too much embarrassment (?). But perhaps I can ask her husband after explaining why I need to know..
_________________________
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)

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#506389 - 09/12/14 08:55 AM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
MORPHEUS Offline
New_Member

Registered: 08/20/13
Posts: 19
Loc: Focsani,Romania
Zark, the natto that you eat looks like the "normal" one we seen in pictures whit that slippery and sticky texture, spider web ??
Does it taste like ammonia, bitterness along with the fermented cheese taste ??
I wil try to cook my own ... and I would not want to poison myself smile
Thank you.


''The production of Natto uses a unique bacterium Bacillus natto (previously classified as bacillus subtilis and is in fact a subspecies) that is a gram-positive rod that characterizes Natto because it produces a sticky/slimy covering that provides Natto with its texture . Bacillus Natto uses carbon sources such as glucose, fructose and sucrose, with sucrose in particular for production of Natto’s characteristic sticky substance (30% of the 20% of carbohydrate of a soybean is sucrose). Nitrogen sources are proteins and amino acids that soybeans possess. Bacillus Natto also requires biotin to germinate (Bacillus subtilis does not), which soybeans posses ample supply"



http://j-nattokinase.org/en/jnka_nattou_02.html


Edited by MORPHEUS (09/12/14 10:17 AM)

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#506392 - 09/13/14 03:53 AM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: Gerry369]
wordbeter Offline
Active_Member

Registered: 08/26/14
Posts: 50
Loc: Australia
Congratulations - this inspires me as well (and shows how much I have yet to learn)

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#506414 - 09/14/14 08:17 AM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
zark Offline
Colonel_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: NSW, Oz
Hey Morpheus, great info. Many thanks - the wiki article I read must have been outdated as it still named the culture B Subtilis.. I had no idea it had been renamed B. Natto.

Threads: The cultured beans from my neighbours are slimy and yes there is some threads but they don't stretch as far as I see in pictures of commercial Natto.

Ammonia: I just had a sniff and there is an interesting smell but I'm not sure what ammonia is like..

Bitter: yep it is a little bitter

Flavour: not sure how to describe it.. Wouldn't compare it with cheese.

I will need to find a commercially made one and taste it to compare.
_________________________
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)

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#506460 - 09/16/14 02:52 AM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
Wombatman Offline
New_Member

Registered: 06/03/12
Posts: 5
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Hi Zark,

Congratulations on your discovery and thank you for sharing with the rest of us.
Is there not starch in soy beans though? Is there a chance this might cause inflammation for others?

I also noticed you are in NSW. What brand of natto would you recommend and where would be a good place to buy it?

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#506467 - 09/16/14 08:26 AM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
zark Offline
Colonel_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: NSW, Oz
Starch .. Well yes there would be starch. The first time I ate them I tied only about half a teaspoon and yet had no pain. Actually that should have been enough starch to cause trouble.

Although it does seem overwhelmingly evident that these cultured soy beans have put me in to remission, I still can't 100% rule out other things that I tried earlier in the year as being potentially helpful, eg Lufenuron and Polygodial.

>> What brand of natto

I haven't tried any commercial Natto yet, just the homemade one from my neighbour. When I do try it I will let you guys know how they compare in flavour / appearance / odour
_________________________
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)

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#506640 - 09/23/14 01:49 PM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
csphysio Offline
New_Member

Registered: 06/14/14
Posts: 13
Great post Zark! And congrats on your remission! Gives so many of us hope out there.

Your post inspired me to pop in to my local Korean grocer this afternoon, and lo and behold, 9 different brands of Natto! They were in the freezer section in the small styrofoam packages you see when you search online. I had no idea which brand to buy, so I bought 4 different kinds of 3-pack frozen nattos.

I'm hoping that the frozen kind will not be detrimental to the nattokinase enzyme.

I have a package defrosting as I write this. I plan on "dosing" with 1 pack per day for the next 2 weeks. Hopefully I'll notice some change, but if not, I'm determined to give it a few months.

Anyone else (other than Zark) try this yet?

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#506647 - 09/23/14 09:50 PM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
zark Offline
Colonel_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: NSW, Oz
If anyone is in Sydney Australia I am happy to share some of my homemade "Natto" smile

>> I'm hoping that the frozen kind will not be detrimental to the nattokinase enzyme

Should be fine. It is heat & pH that mostly kill enzymes. The culture will easily survive being frozen (it is an extremophile after all) and will very likely continue to produce more of the enzyme after digestion.

>> Hopefully I'll notice some change

Fingers crossed !! And keep us updated please. Even if it doesn't work for you we all still want to know.

_________________________
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)

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