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#508002 - 12/10/14 07:26 PM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
zark Offline
Colonel_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: NSW, Oz
Deep fried starch == Pain.

== Here is the timeline ==
Thought I should add more about what happened with the noodles, and give a better timeline (I am on aussie time btw)

Tuesday - around 4pm ate these rubbish instant noodles. Felt yuck and almost nauseous. Inflammation starts up after about 2 hours.

Wednesday - ate lots of fruit, drank green tea with honey, ate natto, and some Jun Scoby. This seems to have helped start the detox, as in the afternoon all this disgusting thick oil came out of the pores on my face. Todays food is very low in fat, so I am certain the oil is from Tuesdays noodles. This oil is not normal at all.. presumably that gunk was clogging up my liver.

Which brings up an important reminder for me: there are multiple instances in the past when my liver had difficulty processing something toxic, eg. a preservative, and that added burden would increase inflammation levels. Yes, the gut is heavily involved, but so is the liver.

Thursday - wake up feeling better despite having eaten starch at dinner, along with Natto and 700mg B3.

What the hell kind of oil is this? It says palm oil on the noodle ingredients, but there is something wrong with it, I reckon it must be hydrogenated. No more instant noodles for me, I am giving the rest away to others who have a stronger digestive system / liver.


Edited by zark (12/10/14 07:28 PM)
_________________________
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)

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#508220 - 12/24/14 06:56 AM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
MarkyT Offline
Apprentice_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/24/14
Posts: 77
Hi Zark, I got very intrigued by your thread and did some research. Found a very interesting story about Bacillus Subtilis which is found in Natto. I wan't to share it. Cannot wait to go and buy some and test it on myself. This might be it. I wonder which brand should I buy....


Bacillus Subtilis

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#508407 - 01/05/15 07:25 PM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
zark Offline
Colonel_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: NSW, Oz
Thanks for the link, it's an interesting read smile

Natto is worth a try, you never know.

I want to be absolutely honest. Sometimes I am so sure it was the Natto. Other times I doubt myself and think it could've been something else, and maybe Natto was just the most recent thing I tried before I noticed that I was in remission. I just can't be 100% certain of anything.. and I really wish I could.

For instance my neighbours gave me some homemade kimchi too, another cultured food, could it have helped? Did I even eat any kimchi at that time? I can't remember... Well.. Natto is still my best guess. Also, when my neighbours gave me their natto it was very fresh and very active.

Previously I said that I reacted again to starch and that eating Natto fixed me up again. Now I think I was mistaken, and that when I eat excessive amounts of starch, or if it is deep fried, then I can still react, but the reaction duration is now shorter lived. So there are limits to my tolerance of starch.

This much is clear - we have a dysbiosis in our gut that is difficult to budge. So I heartily recommend experimenting with a wide variety of cultured foods: Kimchi, natto, live sauerkraut, kombucha, kefir, homemade yoghurt, etc.
_________________________
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)

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#508477 - 01/07/15 09:37 PM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
zark Offline
Colonel_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: NSW, Oz
Here is a really interesting part from Marky's link. B. Subtilis becomes quite dormant if it is cold.

"Once the good hygienic Germans finally recovered from the shock of seeing the Arab natives gulping down warm camel dung, they quickly realized that there must be something in the dung that somehow counteracted the harmful bacteria that caused the dysentery. They questioned the Arabs, who told them that they had no idea why it worked, but that their fathers had always done so, as had their forefathers and it had always worked. The only caveat was that the camel or horse dung had to be ingested while still warm and fresh, because it had no effect on the dysentery if ingested cold.

So the Nazis began carefully examining fresh camel and horse dung. What they discovered was that it was teeming with a powerful bacterial microorganism which later came to be called Bacillus subtilis. This bacteria, it turned out, is so strong that it practically cannibalizes all harmful microorganisms in the human body-particularly pathogenic bacteria like the virulent strain which was causing dysentery in the German troops."
...
"According to clinical studies documented in the medical research report, Immunostimulation by Bacillus Subtilis Preparations, by micro-biologist J. Harmann, the cell wall components of ingested Bacillus Subtilis are able to activate nearly all systems of the human immune defense, including the activation of at least three specific antibodies (IgM, IgG and IgA secretion) which are highly effective against many of the harmful viruses, fungi and bacterial pathogens which regularly attempt to invade and infect the human system."

Source: http://www.life-enthusiast.com/bacillus-subtilis-story-a-3835.html
_________________________
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)

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#508530 - 01/09/15 07:31 AM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
grizzlysoft Offline
New_Member

Registered: 02/06/12
Posts: 4
Hmmm. So that might mean NATTO won't work anymore if it was frozen ?

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#508796 - 01/20/15 09:08 AM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
charlieiportugal Offline
Lurker

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1
I used to be active on this board around 15 years ago, but I got better and stopped posting. I see a few old familiar names around so hello to all of them!

I just thought people might be interested to hear about my tolerance to starch. I am now 40 years old and went no starch 15 years ago and from being a reasonably severe case of AS, I lost all my symptoms within a couple of years of starting the diet. I have never been super strict on the diet, but have always avoided starch whenever possible (but for example I eat yogurts with small amounts of starch in and have never had a problem).

About 3 months ago, on a whim I loosened up on my rules a tiny bit - I was never able to drink beer without a reaction (I know there is no starch in it, but I always reacted), so I tried drinking the occasional beer and was a little less careful about avoiding foods with small amounts of starch in (although I still avoided all the main starchy foods). Well within a few weeks, I started getting a few AS twinges (I had forgotten what SI pain feels like), so I immediately went back to my quite strict diet and the symptoms rapidly subsided.

Anyway the moral of the story if there is one, is that even after 15 years starch free, I still cannot touch starch and I am quite happy to accept that I will never be able to eat starch in my life.

Charlie in Portugal

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#509072 - 02/01/15 06:45 AM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: grizzlysoft]
MarkyT Offline
Apprentice_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/24/14
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: grizzlysoft
Hmmm. So that might mean NATTO won't work anymore if it was frozen ?


I'm wondering this as well, I got 10 small containers that I ordered online, ate one straight out of the fridge, but no result in the last 24 hours, I wonder if I'm supposed to heat it ? I really, really hope that I would see some results, but everyones body is so different, what might work for one, might not work for the other.

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#509265 - 02/10/15 05:52 PM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
zark Offline
Colonel_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: NSW, Oz
>> So that might mean NATTO won't work anymore if it was frozen ?

Guys I just don't know. It could be that my neighbours homemade natto had some other flora growing in it too, eg. from skin contact whilst stirring or straining the beans.

I make my own Kombucha and Jun Scoby cultures now and refrigeration definitely makes the cultures go into a dormant state. Also, when making natto people will often add the culture while the beans are still hot. The shock seems to speed up their activity as natto culture is an extremophile - my recollection is that it starts producing B. Subtilis spores when heated.

My neighbours also gave me homemade kimchi - maybe I tried a little bit of this? I can't remember anymore, hopefully I would have noted this if I had eaten some at that time. I imagine the culture living in that would be similar to that of live homemade sauerkraut.
_________________________
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)

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#509266 - 02/10/15 06:04 PM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
zark Offline
Colonel_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: NSW, Oz
>> so I tried drinking the occasional beer ... within a few weeks, I started getting
>> a few AS twinges

I used to have problems with beer too. I've noticed that I can drink all beers quite safely now without any pain, fortunately.

I can tolerate starch perfectly well and without any other adverse problems as long I stick to very low GI starches and prefer less refined less processed ones too. Also I have to eat in moderation now. So my tolerance level has dropped a little bit !. If I go to a restaurant or a wedding and eat as normal people do then I can be in quite a bit of trouble - lots of oily foods and refined starches.

Mixing oil and starch is a noticeable problem for me now and it brings on AS symptoms again for a day or so. It is curiously common among the processed foods, eg. pizza, biscuits, crispbreads (even 'healthy' ones like vitawheets), cakes, battered foods, donuts, instant noodles, etc.

I can however eat the following starches safely: pasta, hummus (although that is quite fatty so go figure), semolina (cream of wheat), soy milk, cashews, peanuts (initially they weren't good for me but tolerance gradually was gained), bananas and many other unrefined starches too of course.
_________________________
what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)

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#509296 - 02/11/15 08:36 PM Re: I can eat starch again [Re: zark]
FredSonoma Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/15
Posts: 39
Edit: sorry, I read above - zark, would you actually be able to mail some of the natto for me to start my own culture? I will happily pay you

Edit2: I live in New Jersey


Edited by FredSonoma (02/11/15 09:13 PM)

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