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Joined: Sep 2001
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AS Czar
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Hi, Didier:

Understand first, that eliminating starches does not eliminate any conventional "nutrients;" starch--like sugar--is really empty calories.

However we gain a tiny amount of B vitamins from whole-wheat stuff and it is important to supplement properly--no 'multivitamin' can be adequate for very specific reasons and finding vitamins that just happen to have 100% of each of the components is more than suspicious.

When I began NSD, in addition to antibiotics, I began supplementing aggressively and I am convinced that this is the reason I no longer have symptoms.

The things most important for me were calcium, magnesium, copper, zinc, boron, vitD, Bcomplex, EFAs, and just a few others. Everyone with AS has a calcium deficiency and we are losing this most important mineral at a very rapid pace and it must be replaced and the inflammation brought under control to reverse this trend.

But, inherently, the NSD does not cause any deficiencies except for "energy" and calories and pure sugar is not the right approach to resolving this; we must increase our fat and protein consumption and it takes several months to crossover properly.

HEALTH,
John

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Didier Offline OP
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Thanks John.

I suppose in a stricter form of NSD as I've been doing where you avoid dairy, legumes, and starchy vegetables like carrots, brussels sprouts, beans, peas, cauliflower, etc. you would have to make sure you are getting the micronutrients you would otherwise be getting from those sources from other sources instead. I haven't been very deliberate about that. How would you go about finding what to supplement? Blood tests? Food journaling?


Last edited by Didier; 01/14/14 05:59 PM.
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Originally Posted By: jroc

Some people are able to succeed and see good results on starch restrictive diets and some are even able to return to eating starch again without issues. I just think it's important to be aware of some of the issues that can arise due to restrictive dieting, especially as sometimes the proposed solution to problems caused by restrictive dieting is to apply even stricter dietary restrictions.


Jroc, thanks for the detailed explanation. Very insightful. Just curious, as I piece together some of your other posts, it sounds like you've been experimenting yourself with a less strict form of NSD allowing for rice, yams and squash?

Didier

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Hi Didier

Sorry if there was any confusion. I don't personally follow any form of NSD or starch restriction. I probably get the majority of my energy from starch so you could even go as far as saying I have a starch based diet wink

I've experimented with lots of different dietary strategies and read a lot of reasearch on gut inflammation, gut bacteria and systemic inflammation over the years but haven't come across anything that would point to starch per se being an important factor in gut health and inflammation.

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John, would you mind letting me/us know how much of each of those supplements you took daily/weekly?

I received my NOW zinc tablets and they tested positive for starch. I also received my copper tabs but they failed to mention on the website that the 1st ingredient is potato starch.

Has anyone had success in finding starch free zinc, copper, boron and a b complex?
I would like to have the ability to add starches to my diet and know that my results aren't tainted.


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>> dairy, legumes, and starchy vegetables like carrots, brussels >> sprouts, beans, peas, cauliflower

Hi Didler,
Just so you know.. I'm ok with: yoghurt (had very mild stiffness initially), carrots (really not starchy, maybe 1% or less), brussels sprouts, long beans (tiny amount of starch but no peas of course), cauliflower (mine don't react to iodine, but different regions may have different farming practices). I am still very sensitive to amylose starch.
Z


what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)
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Didier Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: jroc
Hi Didier

Sorry if there was any confusion. I don't personally follow any form of NSD or starch restriction. I probably get the majority of my energy from starch so you could even go as far as saying I have a starch based diet wink

I've experimented with lots of different dietary strategies and read a lot of reasearch on gut inflammation, gut bacteria and systemic inflammation over the years but haven't come across anything that would point to starch per se being an important factor in gut health and inflammation.


Jroc, you are certainly an outlier on this forum! smile What about gluten and processed starches? I believe in one of the threads you pointed to you had some links to papers establishing a connection between these things and worsening AS symptoms. I'm just curious as to whether you are selective about your starches - I couldn't imagine you're gourging yourself on wonder bread and breakfast cereal!

Didier

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@Dutchie, thanks for the suggestions. We did have it on our list to make some gummies using fruit juice and marshmallows in our next foray into the kitchen to try something new, and I didn't realize gelatin helped with gut healing. So we'll move it up the list.

And to clarify, the only reason I think that some healing is needed is that she lost 35 lbs. during treatment with NSAIDS... munching through boxes of Krispy Kreme's, full fat iced coffees, and anything else we could get in her. Yes, we tried to keep her meals balanced, but I cringe when I think about the extra calories we were stuffing her with that probably worsened her condition. The weight loss and complete lack of energy didn't turn around until we stopped the NSAIDS and started eating low starch. Ironic.

Didier, if you have a doctor who will run the nutrient test for you, that may be the easiest way to figure it all out. I wonder if they could put you in touch with a nutritionist to discuss what you're eating, and see if they recognize any gaps?

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Hi, CoatTails:

Quote:
John, would you mind letting me/us know how much of each of those supplements you took daily/weekly?

I received my NOW zinc tablets and they tested positive for starch. I also received my copper tabs but they failed to mention on the website that the 1st ingredient is potato starch.

Has anyone had success in finding starch free zinc, copper, boron and a b complex?
I would like to have the ability to add starches to my diet and know that my results aren't tainted


The amounts of each supplement were typically between 1 and 4 RDA guidelines. We should take about 2g chelated calcium daily, but I was--most of the time--just over 1g and about 2g strontium when taking that. 10,000 IU vitD, 100mg zinc (chelated), just one Bcomplex with typical dosages like this B-100 product. At first I found chelated magnesium, but now just take it in liquid form--magnesium citrate (typically about 400-800mg approx). In addition I took colloidal minerals at about 10tbsps daily (both NOW and TJ Clark), 100mg niacin (not niacinamide), boron 3mg, iron 18mg--not every day. Chromium, vanadium, cobalt (B12), selenium (in vitE--). Sometimes: 2000mg lysine, 2000mg vitC, increase niacin to 500+mg, and >2000IU vitE. Probiotic yoghurt at about 2oz (half small serving) in cycles.

And various occasional fasts, apple diets, cleansings, etc. Including trials with quercetin, oregano oil, colloidal silver, colostrum, and and many other similar agents.

Many cycles of antibiotics as outlined in my AP for AS.

In addition to the above, I attribute my current gut health to total avoidance of NSAIDs (even aspirin) and starches. And today, I no longer have any AS-related reaction to dietary starches; they do, however, cause considerable weight gain!

HEALTH,
John

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Hi Didier

Quote:
What about gluten and processed starches? I believe in one of the threads you pointed to you had some links to papers establishing a connection between these things and worsening AS symptoms.

I used to think that gluten was a prime culprit in gut issues but have since found that a lot of the research that it was based on like gluten increasing zonulin in non-celiacs and the existence of non-celiac gluten sensitivity is speculative at best. These blog posts have some more info on those topics:
- http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/04/what-no-one-is-saying-about-zonulin-is.html
- http://huntgatherlove.com/content/gluten-sensitivity-really-type-carbohydrate-intolerance

I haven't found that gluten causes any particular issues for me so I regularly eat bread (both white and whole grain depending on what I feel like). I don't seem to have any issues with other grains, potatoes, sweet potatoes, beans or legumes except for chickpeas and soy milk.

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