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#491207 - 07/04/13 09:05 AM Re: Fecal transplant & Helminthic therapy [Re: bettyrawker]
Grumpyally Offline
Black_Belt_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 419
Loc: UK
Andrea,

I have just reread your post and realise that it was DIY. The first donor that sprang to mind for me was my husband if I were to do it. Did she just go for it or have 'it' tested first for parasites etc and did she just do it once or several times.
I would love to get rid of the dark circles under my eyes and get my energy back I've no AS pains at the moment but definitely feel my gut isn't working as it should.

xx
_________________________
NSD almost all the way
No dairy hard cheeses occasionally and homemade ghee
Still trying to work out what makes me tick and what makes me drop

'Chew your drinks and drink your foods'
'Let your knife & fork do the work of your teeth and let your teeth do the work of your stomach'
Mahatma Gandhi

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#491216 - 07/04/13 11:14 AM Re: Fecal transplant & Helminthic therapy [Re: evand1991]
Grumpyally Offline
Black_Belt_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 419
Loc: UK
I found this posted by somebody from this website/forum http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=1662417&p=3 who spoke to the person in Australia using this process

Yesterday morning I spoke with Prof T Borody who is the Director of the Centre for Digestive Diseases in Australia where they not only treat patients they also carry out a lot of research. This doctor is highly qualified and highly experienced and for those of you who don't know, had a lot to do with the Nobel Prize won by Barry Marshall for discovering that Helicobacer Pylori causes ulcers. Barry Marhsall spent many years in trying to get the medical community to take his ideas seriously as is often the case in the sciences.



Prof Borody told me that they have carried out Fecal Transplant (FT) treatments on over 1300 patients and that their success rate is exceptional to around 90% and they have been doing it for many years. I do not believe for one second that this Professor of Gastrenterology would make such claims if they were not true.



He explained that medical science had not even scratched the surface in identifying all the different strains of flora that live in the intestinal tract. He also explained that it was highly probable that not all pathogenic bacteria have yet been identified. And he went on to say that human feces is alive with billions of probiotic flora. He believes that digestive diseases are caused by infection and a subsequent upset of the flora of the gut. He said that swallowing probiotics are mostly ineffective because they are so unlikely to be the right strains and also unlikely to reach the colon in sufficient numbers to make a difference. He said that the most pure and highly abundant form of good probiotic bacteria comes from feces from a healthy human donor.



The fact that FT has worked for some people on this board on a DIY basis surely proves the efficacy of this treatment because none of the people here were able to follow the protocol that Borody and his team have formulated over many years and yet they still got good results. Yes, there are some here didn't have success but then that is arguably because they were not able to follow Borody's protocol.



Borody puts people on a strict low fibre diet for 2 weeks prior to treatment. He also treats them with antibiotics as he wants to reduce pathogenic numbers as much as possible to help the good bacteria take a foothold. He also ensures that the donors are tested to be healthy and that their stools are also tested (many asymptomatic people carry C. Difficile). He then does FT a number of times over a number of days. And when he does the FT he uses a colonoscope so that the whole colon can be implanted or he places the implant via a nasal gastric tube into the duodenum (I believe) so that the small intestine can also benefit as some people have Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth. After the FT the patient then embarks on a high fibre diet.



So if we consider the above protocol it is not surprising that some people here have not been too successful but it is equally amazing that some people here have been successful and I propose that this just adds weight to the potential success of this treatment.



In addition some people here used babies poo which I understand because it is readily available if you have a baby but again this is not ideal as a baby's poo has not yet evolved completely and will not have all the desired healthy bacteria (when a baby is born it has no bacteria at all in its gut).



The thought of using someone else's feces is a bit stomach churning but most people would be quite happy to have a blood transfusion or a liver transplant wouldn't they.



I have to say that if anyone here is consdering trying FT but are unable to go to Australia to have it done then they should follow Borody's protocol as much as possible as surely it stands to reason that he knows a darn site more about it than anyone here (no disrespect meant).
_________________________
NSD almost all the way
No dairy hard cheeses occasionally and homemade ghee
Still trying to work out what makes me tick and what makes me drop

'Chew your drinks and drink your foods'
'Let your knife & fork do the work of your teeth and let your teeth do the work of your stomach'
Mahatma Gandhi

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#491295 - 07/05/13 08:55 AM Re: Fecal transplant & Helminthic therapy [Re: Grumpyally]
The_Inflammator Offline
Journeyman_AS_Kicker

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 141
Loc: Northern Virginia
Can't believe I haven't heard of these treatments before. I know the focus is on IBD but my gut issues/IBD are very in sync with my AS symptoms. My AS symptoms are always reduced on the rare occasion I have a more solid BMs. I've had IBD almost my entire life, can't remember the last time my stools were solid. My test with NSDiet resolved both issues at the same time.

Lately my AS has gotten worse and my stools are liquid and often bloody. I can't really afford not to try something just because it makes me queezy.

It is a crazy treatment option but what would we have to lose? Anyone else willing to give these options a try? I know some of you are pretty crazy enough to give it a go. They just seem like alternative ways of altering gut flora to me, though approaching it from the opposite end. sick

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#491306 - 07/05/13 12:52 PM Re: Fecal transplant & Helminthic therapy [Re: Grumpyally]
bettyrawker Offline
Magical_AS_Kicker

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Oregon
Hey Ally,

She just did it DIY, no doctors testing or anything. She had complete faith in her hubby's poo to do the trick. He is a super healthy guy, and if for some reason she was to contract some unknown for him, she figured (a) how much worse could her IBD get (b) she would the just try another person's poo to correct it.

She realized, once you get over the ick factor, it's quite a beautiful and simple idea. And beautiful and simple ideas and foods seem to be the best cures!

I can send you a PM with more details!
_________________________
I'm now a KICK AS (and Kick IBD) success story!! After going low starch Paleo to heal my gut, I can now eat nearly all starches, grains & foods without inflammation, flare-ups, or pain. I used a modified SCD diet approach (minus dairy! plus cacao ♥). Cheers to healing & thriving again! I blog at http://www.forestandfauna.com/about/

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#491310 - 07/05/13 01:59 PM Re: Fecal transplant & Helminthic therapy [Re: The_Inflammator]
Grumpyally Offline
Black_Belt_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 419
Loc: UK
Hi,
I have just started reading into this and one of the things I came across was that animals when sick will eat another's pooh to get better, so it occurs in nature.
Yes it is very much a case of what have we got to loose if you can get over the gross factor (well its more the smell than anything).
_________________________
NSD almost all the way
No dairy hard cheeses occasionally and homemade ghee
Still trying to work out what makes me tick and what makes me drop

'Chew your drinks and drink your foods'
'Let your knife & fork do the work of your teeth and let your teeth do the work of your stomach'
Mahatma Gandhi

Top
#491525 - 07/10/13 11:57 AM Re: Fecal transplant & Helminthic therapy [Re: evand1991]
evand1991 Offline
Active_Member

Registered: 06/20/12
Posts: 74
Loc: Ottawa valley, Canada
Hey,

Great Info on FMT!
Andrea, did your friend only do it once? i've read some times it takes up to 5 times in a couple weeks.

I am still trying to find more info on Helminthic therapy and AS but have only found results with colitis and IBS. I have been in touch with some patients that are 2 months in with the treatment but that is still to early to tell if it is working or not.
_________________________
Evan

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#491588 - 07/11/13 09:07 PM Re: Fecal transplant & Helminthic therapy [Re: evand1991]
bettyrawker Offline
Magical_AS_Kicker

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Oregon
So far she has only done one FT. She hasn't had any bad GI issues since, so it hasn't seemed necessary to do anymore.

Pretty sure she figures she will likely do a few more in the future, but for now, she doesn't want to mess with a good thing. Ya know, sorta like, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

As for her any improvement in her AS symptoms, she only has very minimal AS pains from time to time, but she is still on an overall very, very low starch diet. She attributes the reduction of AS pains and inflammation over the years to her diet.

She attributes a happier gut & overall increase in energy to her diet too, but also can see overall GI improvement since doing the FT.
_________________________
I'm now a KICK AS (and Kick IBD) success story!! After going low starch Paleo to heal my gut, I can now eat nearly all starches, grains & foods without inflammation, flare-ups, or pain. I used a modified SCD diet approach (minus dairy! plus cacao ♥). Cheers to healing & thriving again! I blog at http://www.forestandfauna.com/about/

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#491664 - 07/13/13 03:14 PM Re: Fecal transplant & Helminthic therapy [Re: evand1991]
finnari Offline
Veteran_AS_Kicker

Registered: 06/02/07
Posts: 517
Loc: phoenix
IT makes a lot of sense and considering my AS blew up for the first time when I got sick in Thailand from a stomach dysentry it makes total sense.

I would consider doing it but would prefer a clinic to do it for me.

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#491804 - 07/17/13 07:45 AM Re: Fecal transplant & Helminthic therapy [Re: finnari]
Lindyap Offline
Fourth_Degree_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/11/09
Posts: 313
Loc: Georgia
Hi, all! I have just done 5 days of FMT in Tampa with Dr. Shepard. I don't have c.dificile, but they were able to assist to test this as a potential treatment for Spondylitis.

The following week I had one flare, but this may have been due to a shrimp allergy.

Dr. Shepard was just mentioned in a New York Times article:http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/why-i-donated-my-stool/

I used their in-house donor (glad I didn't know who it was). Completely easy and painless.

The doctor said to give this 4-9 weeks to establish (like regrowing a forest in intestines). I'll keep everyone posted.

I have been eating some starch (sweet potatoes and some rice). My worry was I need to feed the good bacteria now. No gluten at all, and no sugar.

I'm hoping this brings some answers to us soon!


Edited by Lindyap (07/17/13 07:47 AM)

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#491819 - 07/17/13 03:24 PM Re: Fecal transplant & Helminthic therapy [Re: evand1991]
Possi Offline
Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 6912
Loc: Oklahoma where the wind comes...
How interesting. I will be anxious to hear what it does for the Sponylitis. I have a daughter in Tampa who does have c.diff. I will have to mention his name to her.

Thanks for sharing.
_________________________


Possi
*********************************************************

RUN WHEN YOU CAN,
WALK IF YOU HAVE TO,
CRAWL IF YOU MUST,
JUST NEVER EVER GIVE UP!



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