http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/23...acks/?hpt=he_c2

linking this here because so many of us with spondyloarthropathies have osteopenia / osteoporosis or at least have to be cautious of such due to both the disease itself and meds like pred.

so, while trying to protect our bones, we could be risking our heart. with calcium at least, or so the study shows.

what about strontium? same thing? doubt anyone has even looked at this.

they say calcium from food ok, just not supplements, in regards to the heart issue. but for those of us "sensitive" to dairy, that is a challenge. not impossible perhaps, but definitely challenging.

thoughts?

Thanks for the article, Sue.
Bokchoy is suppose to have a ton of calcium, more than dairy products.

Manganese - takes the calcium and puts where needed - so say those that know... Follow that link I posted to Osteoporosis Foundation, INTENSE Forum - all the discussions and information is there.

Strontium Citrate has not been linked to cancer, not in any trial nor in any literature. Strontium Citrate has been taken for 'n' number of years. Side effects are minimal, mainly being that of 'some' constipation in some persons and, not recommended IF have sticky blood, that is, blood that is inclined to clot easily.

Think this 'calcium' scare is just that. A 'scare' as pharma are real nervous now with the appalling reports on the bisphosphonate drugs - all the cover ups being revealed and the findings coming out of the wood-work!

How many reports have you read over the years that point the finger to calcium being the cause of cancer or heart attacks? NSAIDs cause heart attacks and can do a right number of cutting the gut up. Bisphosphonate drugs can lead to osteonecrosis. The biologics can lead to lymphomas etc etc. But calcium Citrate causing heart attacks left, right and centre? Don't think so.

IF take calcium, ensure Calcium Citrate and not calcium carbonate. In addition, take Magnesium Citrate to put the calcium where it should be - IN the bones.

And this - from the article that Sue posted :-

More questions than answers - several important blind spots - results possibly skewered - only half of the supplement users notified 'which' supplements they 'were' taking...!! - an 'observational' report - with possibly users more vulnerable to heart attacks for 'reasons that had nothing to do with supplements'.

IOW no reliable basis for scare-mongering calcium supplementation.

P.S. Like that scare pharma tried putting around some 18 odd months ago, that supplementing with Vit-C was 'bad for you' could cause cancer or summat like idiocy. Seems like they are running through the gamut of vitamins and minerals, so see which one they decide to hit on next...!!

did think to myself, "wonder if there is a difference between calcium carbonate vs calcium citrate?" the answer to that would be interesting.

an interesting point from the article was that they think the reason the supplements showed issues where calcium from food did not seem to was because they think that the calcium from food is absorbed slowly while the calcium from the supplements is dumped quickly into the blood stream.

that got me thinking, instead of trying to take 2 pills at a time twice a day, maybe better to take 1 pill at a time four times a day.

to me its not usually so much believing or disbelieving a claim as much as trying to understand how they arrived at the information. maybe there is a lesson to be taken away. in this case, the lesson could be to get the calcium from food if possible and if not then maybe smaller doses more often could be helpful.

yes, a lot of questions yet to be answered.

but like with the estrogen where they thought it was going to be a good thing, then the data indicated otherwise. sometimes the findings do surprise.

this past winter, read the book "the end of illness" written by an oncologist. IMO he had no hidden agenda but lots of experience with cancer and cancer patients. and that was the first place i read about the link between some supplements like the antioxidants and an increase in cancer incidence. that surprised a lot of people (doctors, scientists, etc) because it went against what everyone had presumed. but the explanation made sense: that oxidation damages cancer cells just like other cells and thus suppressing that oxidation actually suppresses our ability to fight the cancer. this link was discovered when they had people in cancer studies either on or not on the supplements, thinking maybe they'd fair better. no one was expecting them to fair worse.

but i thought about the results and decided that maybe for a healthy individual eating a healthy diet, the supplements are not necessary, so why raise the risk of cancer if one doesn't need the supplements. but for someone like me, where things like vitamin C seem to be helping my immune system fight the inflammation or vitamin E hopefully helping my fatty liver, for me, i decided the increased cancer risk was minimal compared to the inflammatory arthritis, fatty liver, etc.

sometimes its just a matter of weighing the pros and cons and evaluating what's right for each one of us individually.

still, i like to have the information. what i choose to do with the information is up to me.

and i am always fascinated when we are proven wrong. when we make assumptions, build hypotheses, and then the data shows us our logic was wrong. i think that helps keep us on our toes and makes us realize how important it is to test all hypotheses and just how important data is. of course interpretation of the data is important to.

anyway, good to be aware of the findings.

and hoping this leads to more studies and better advice to people as to what to do.

http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-o...ge=last#replies

K2-MK4 is the vitamin to deposit the calcium where it belongs, in the bones and not arteries. Must be the K2-MK4 (NOT MK-7 which is detrimental). Then magnesium citrate to also help with the dispersal. Ratio of magnesium to calcium: magnesium should be more than the calcium. All discussed to the 'nth degree on above site - most interesting. Lara is a nutritionist expert - her husband has just received an award for medicine. They co-authored the book 'Your Bones'.

But none of this stops pharma from trying their utmost to put paid to supplements and minerals... See also the other thread on the wrist. Mentioned the FDA trying to blast fish oils...and Canada stopping people from bringing in fish oils over the border. Strewth. What idiocy.

Oh yes, the Vit-C was said to cause heart problems...ho-hum chum. Do they thing we are all idiots then? Like cherries were not to be touted as being good for one - next they will stamp on vegetables and broccoli as not to be being sold as 'good for one'. But can fool with the whole food chain and use artifical sweeteners as nauseum - and all the rest of the crap in the adulterated food chain + the GM crops and the adulterated animal feeds with antibiotics and feeding animal parts to vegetariaqn eating animals - cows refer. Now got more cases of BSE in the States. But the FDA will not listen - they are led by the nose by pharma. Pharma rules - the agri business and pharma.

http://www.ask.com/questions-about/Calcium-Citrate-Vs-Calcium-Carbonate#anc_3

Calcium carbonate v. calcium citrate --

Nd note the note on the importance of taking magnesium to 'put' the calcium where it belongs, in the bones.

http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-o...p;asat=34346074

Latest discussion from NOF on very topic : Calcium supplements and heart attacks -

thanks for those links molly

will read

http://products.mercola.com/vitamin-k/index-b.htm?e_cid=20120526_DNL_ban_CTA&source=nl

Mercola : Vit-K2 *Protects your heart health. (Long).

Was interested to read that curd cheese is full of K...my fave cheese is curd cheese, preferably goats, raw milk. Delish.

(No. Am not pushing his 'sales' - his prices are crazy. AlgaeCal have a K2 on their products list, as indeed do others. Just *ensure that K2 NOT K7 or K8 or K9.)