FlexibleMind - here's a good website for you, with excellent links to further reading. No, not statins...

http://chriskresser.com/heartdisease

Thanks for the link Molly! I've actually been over there on his site reading lots by him the past day, seems to really be edu'macated on the topic! I'm listening to his podcast with Chris Masterjohn as I type this .

thanks again!

Jason

And yet more information - excellent information:


Note, that in part 3, he gets into an excellent discussion of various food effects on thyroid hormones, and discusses possible corrective actions.

This from the Chris 'Kresler' site. Chris Masterjohn (who he interviews) is probably the most knowledgeable out there in terms of seeing the big picture with cholesterol and heart disease. He gets into the role of thyroid, liver, and other factors that are often overlooked. Anyhow, if you are up for it, here is his three part series on the truth about cholesterol (warning: he does get into some complex details).

Episode 11 – Chris Masterjohn on cholesterol & heart disease (Part 1)
http://chriskresser.com/the-healthy-skeptic-podcast-episode-11

Chris Masterjohn on cholesterol & heart disease (part 2)
http://chriskresser.com/episode-16-chris-masterjohn-on-cholesterol-heart-disease-part-2

RHR: Chris Masterjohn on Cholesterol and Heart Disease (Part 3)
http://chriskresser.com/chris-masterjohn-on-cholesterol-and-heart-disease-part-3

That's the exact series I'm listening to at the moment, it is great stuff!

molly thanks for those links. i'll check them out further, already started browsing.

molly and flexible mind:

the whole story with my family history is that diabetes/heart disease runs on both sides of my family (father's mother and my mother's mother). but in addition, my mother's half brothers have a completely different kind of heart disease. one not involving diabetes. one that involves obesity. one that often kills in their 50s or 60s.

so at an early age, i knew one size doesn't fit all.

i do think for the majority of the population, a "healthy" diet, exercise, weight management are all people really need to be concerned with.

but for those with certain genetic factors, things like lipid profile is more of a concern.

i've obviously paid more attention to the details that would pertain to my case, the insulin resistance / glucose intolerance induced heart (or rather artery) disease. so that's the information and advice i try to follow.

problem is, there is a lot of controversial and contradictory information out there. thus the challenge for (all) of us, is to weed through it, and decide what makes the most sense.

flexible mind: is the heart disease in your family diabetes / heart disease? or just heart disease? i apologize if you've already addressed that. i'd base my decisions on that.

and when you mention living "healthier" than those relatives. me too. but still, my numbers weren't good and still i wonder about the LDLs. and even the other numbers aren't really where i'd like them, though better. so diet and exercise can help to an extent, but just because we're good, doesn't mean we're immune. that's my feelings anyway.

since i read mixed things regarding "cholesterol", in my mind, the jury is still out. i like to play it safe, thus when i don't know, i tend not to believe any one person, any one school.

it would be nice if LDL levels didn't mean anything, but i just don't know, as there are two camps. not so cut and dry in my mind.

and if i were doing such a great job, then why is the weight still a problem? and why am i now battling fatty liver? though the numbers (ALT) have been coming down.

what i really want is an artery test. if they can show me that my arteries are clean, then i'll stop thinking about it.

like glad i get so many tests, was able to catch the early stages of the fatty liver. my aunt had cirrhosis of the liver when she was 50. no tests, so it progressed til it was a huge problem.

but then the positive is that with cleaning up her diet and losing weight, her liver got better.

so maybe my advice is to read all of the info and stay open to all opinions. right now i really can't say who i think is correct.

just wish i could eat like my husband does and be as healthy as he is. he eats a healthy diet most of the time, but can eat the carbs, etc and has great numbers.

of course he gardens and plein aire paints so he gets lots of exercise. whereas my job requires a lot more sitting. so not just genetics, but a difference in activity level as well.

well, as you said, we do what we can.

thanks for an interesting discussion.

and please pass all the info you have my way as well. like that website that molly linked. looks interesting. think i may have seen it before, but if so, its been awhile and i'd forgotten about it.

Agreed Sue. It's tough to weed through everything that's out there and make the best decision for oneself. I guess for me I've been doing what feels right for my body. My family history is heart disease(fathers side only), but as I mentioned they are all in their late 70's and 80's are overweight, eat fried foods galore, sedentary, and still are kickin with their high cholesterol numbers and yes they all take statins.

For me, I've felt better than I ever have since starting the LSD. With each thing I learn, refine and incorporate I feel a bit better. I've lost 22 lbs (35 if you go back 3 years), my nightly rib pain has gone from a 5-7 to now a 2-3 and still getting better. I've cut out most sugar aside from my fruit smoothies which I have once every 3 days. I recently added the digestive enzymes and "inflazyme" which seemed to take my pain down a bit further. I'm 35, exercise a lot, eat great, and feel that getting on statins right now just doesn't seem like the right choice. Perhaps if I hit 40 and the numbers are still high, I can have some test to look at my arteries as well and determine if the high LDL has really been an issue. No dairy for now and only doing egg whites as my test was reactive to only lecithin thus no yolks. After all the reading and taking everything into account my gut tells me I'm on the right track. The links Molly sent I've been listening too and they even state that a lot of weight loss can raise LDL's quite a bit but I'd be interested in having an actual density particle test to determine the content of my LDL. Doc says that's really the only number he was concerned with, not the total of 271. But I guess if I bring my LDL down a bit, then total will come down too. I'm gonna add the fish oil in higher doses and retest in a month or so. Might even do a 5-7 day water fast in there too.

Thanks for the discussion, informative indeed.

Jason

Hey, Jason:

Your triglycerides are not high enough perhaps to have the characteristic Asian cholesterol issues.

But overall, Your numbers are not so bad. Especially if You are going to stay out of inflammation. The ESR and CRP numbers are very important for this. It is one thing to have the cholesterol, but quite another for that cholesterol to find a permanent home as plaque (that happens often due to inflammation).

Of course nobody could predict what the numbers would have been, had You been eating more starches, but these usually increase cholesterol produced by the liver: I am trying to find the reference, but it seems about 10% of the cholesterol we eat shows up directly--over 90% of the numbers are the result of our liver in response to how we metabolize the oils, but also starches.

Also, lifestyle factors such as exercise and basic food choices (fish or chicken and whether it is chicken with the skin and even fried or not; fish would be the better choice), and retained fat, especially in omentum (it does not always show so much on the outside).

You have been doing great, and although I do not consider myself even an armchair expert in this field, I don't have more suggestions to try anything drastic. Of course, I am always interested in fasting, and it could certainly be of some value, but not the long-term fix for the numbers.

HEALTH,
John

i think you are right then, our genetics sound very different.

in my family, its not uncommon to have diabetes by age 40, liver disease and/or artery disease by age 50. and both grandmothers died in their 60s. my profile looks a lot like their's, despite eating better and exercising, hence my apprehension.

but your situation sounds very different.

i will say, in closing, i've been impressed how much diet, exercise, and supplements have helped / are helping.

Hey, Jason:

Looks like, also according to Mercola, You are pretty close to optimal.

We now know that your body actually requires cholesterol to manufacture vitamin D from sunlight, to synthesize sex hormones, and for proper brain function. Measuring total blood cholesterol tells you practically nothing about your heart disease risk. More value can be derived by looking at the relative types of lipids circulating in your bloodstream, and today we have sophisticated tests that can measure these. The following two ratios are far better indicators of heart disease risk than total cholesterol alone:

Your HDL/Cholesterol ratio: HDL (high-density lipoproteins) to total cholesterol percentage is a very good predictor of heart disease risk. Just divide your HDL number by your total cholesterol. Ideally, this number should exceed 24 percent; below 10 percent predicts an increased risk for heart disease.
Your Triglyceride/HDL ratio: Divide your triglyceride number by your HDL. This percentage should ideally be below 2.


Not that far off--just increase slightly HDL and You will be in safest range. I don't know exactly how to increase HDL as I have tried many things that are commonly recommended, but since You have been losing weight that is probably the primary reason for the elevated serum cholesterol--when the fat is metabolized away it exits through the blood. Your levels in a few months might be improved.

HEALTH,
John