You seem to be a very "angry" person. Do not be. My aim in the forum is certainly not to harass anyone or make life miserable to everyone. Some people are comfortable with accepting things as they are. Others like to question things. I fall into the latter group. This diet has not done me much good, in the way I followed it. Believe me, if it worked for me, I would still be questioning things. If the diet worked for me, I would still suspect that it could be natural remission. I would have then, about two months later, challenged my body with starch to see if the pains return. As for you wishing me to leave, my diet will be "formally" finishing tomorrow. I will then send some blood for vitamin D testing, and experiment with vitamin supplementation. I would probably post my results in the alternative section, or who knows , start my own forum on it , so you wont hear much from me in this forum.....

Nah. I'm not an angry person. Actually, I'm very even keeled and when not in pain have a positive disposition. Some things that make me angry include doctors that pretend to know what they are talking about, what the so called leaders are doing to my country, and clowns that are more concerned with style over substance. However, this is not about me, it is about you.

There is a time to question the mechanism of things like the diet or the set up of a forum, but I don't think this is the right time. Were you truly interested in working toward success with the diet, these things would be of little or no import. Individuals that desire to be successful on the diet don't worry about these things right out of the gate, if at all.

To say, "if the diet worked for me..." is extremely passive. You must work at being successful. It may be a jumping off point prompting you to make other changes to your dietary habits. It may only be part of the picture. The primary culprit as it relates to AS. Other food types may be secondary or tertiary offenders.

My intent is not to chase you, or anyone, away. However, I don't believe that you want the diet to work. I also wonder if you have the mettle to adhere to the diet. Start your own site. That way you can be in control as you desire. Until then, I hope that you do not waste the time of the helpful participants of this forum.




Also, who is this "we" to which you have referred? The context in which you use it makes me somehow suspicious.

1. So today, I end my starch diet. It was about 3 weeks of LSD and another week or so combined with antibiotic augmentin.

2. I cannot say that there is significant improvement, though of course one must take into account the duration.

3. My personal opinion is still, that there could be some in this forum who are in natural remission and that they are unnecessarily suffering starch restriction. If that is the case, then such persons are really making life unnecessarily tougher than it should be. For them, my personal opinion is that they should try a starch challenge, and expect a flare soon after (within a week). Then they will know they are starch sensitive, and continue the diet. However,if after a week they remain flare free, then, perhaps they can quit the diet, and celebrate a natural remission of the disease.
4. My next step will be to investigate vitamin D. On Monday, i will send blood for a vitamine D test. If low, i will try high dose vit D supplementation. Those results i will put in the alternatives forum, so hopefully I will not tread on anyone's toes here.

Some of you , understandably , have suggested I run my own forum, so i can do whatever i want there instead of troubling you here. Can someone suggest , what is the easiest forum platform to install and run. I have some non forum websites that i have with inmotion hosting. What i am scared of, is that, if the forum becomes successful, i might let people down but not being able to run it smoothly (e.g. I do not know how to write scripts /code etc). So far I have only basic knowledge of Dreamweaver. Any advice would be welcome. Thank you.

Mr. pspondylitis,

You finally got what he wanted: to show here that this diet does not make any sense for you. I'm so sorry for you.

Ok. If for you three weeks LDS + one week of antibiotics is enough time to rule out an alternative, you may have trouble finding any other. Any treatment (whether drugs, vitamin supplements, herbal medicine ....) require more persistence.

I stand than three months "investigating" with my son, age 17 (just started AS) about the effects of starch in pain from his back and his knee. The boy is taking NSAIDs too, but I assure you, himself is watching the pain and stiffness increase when he makes exceptions in diet.

So we are going to persist, looking and enjoying a great diet. My son had never eaten so healthy: lots of vegetables, fruits, meats, seeds, fish, eggs ... True, there are some restrictions for a young guy: junk food, candy... pizza, pasta, rice, tubers, milk ...

It's a challenge for me to get a diet to compensate for these restrictions and make don't lack any important nutrients.
The last blood test (a couple of weeks) showed that the boy is in good condition. Just a little lift of CRP(16), normal in this disease. Our rheumy said continuing two months with NSAIDs and diet! and return with new blood test.

Maybe soon we can eliminate drugs and keep only with NSD?

Unlike you, for me this is really encouraging.

Good luck and health!

Maiga

First of all, I am sorry that you didn't get the relief that you sought.

From your recount of your experiment, there are a few possibilities:
1. The diet just doesn't work for you.
2. Though you reduced your starch intake, it was still high enough to keep your symptoms lingering.
3. The specifics of your condition are unique enough that even a successful diet will not give you complete relief. For example, I suspect that some people who have struggled with the diet may have substantial physical damage from years of inflammation. This collateral damage may be hard to eliminate via diet. It's unclear if that is a reasonable explanation for your case.
4. There may be something else going on other than spondylitis.

The above isn't a comprehensive list, nor are they mutually exclusive. It's possible that a number of things that are going on that may explain your personal results.


I can't speak for others, but I can emphatically say that I do not enjoy the inconvenience of the diet. I do try adding some fringe starches a couple of times of year to see what I can get away with, and those experiments have shifted me from asymptomatic bliss to stiffness/mild pain. There's a difference from being in remission and just being asymptomatic, and unfortunately, I am not the former.

I do agree with one of the points that Jaybird said. You have to work at this to figure out what may make the most sense for you. One of the things that I read about that resonated with me was the notion of an elimination diet. I learned about this idea from a book called _Conquering Arthritis_. In essence, you go on a one day water fast, then everyday you add one new item into your diet. It's impossible to run a perfectly controlled experiment, but this is pretty good. It's inconvenient but it better helps ascertain triggering foods.

Keeping a food/pain diary was extremely helpful. Long before I embraced a strict NSD protocol, I kept a food diary. After a few months, I went back and looked at all the days I felt worse, and noticed that there was a consistent precipitating food that triggered it. I then purchased some iodine and discovered that the seasoning I was using was indeed starchy after all. After that, I became very strict and ultimately started testing everything with iodine. That really opened my eye about how little starch could lead me to observing symptoms. This experience also lent credence that the improvement I observed on the diet was not a placebo effect.

I wish I could provide you with a full proof plan for improvement, but I cannot. I just hope you find something that makes you feel better. Good luck.

"My personal opinion is still, that there could be some in this forum who are in natural remission and that they are unnecessarily suffering starch restriction."

That's right. It is your personal opinion based on observations made of people you have never met! Your dismissal of NSD founded on a lack of evidence has led you to conclude that our successes (based on our own evidence) is unfounded! Hmmm.

I have an equally interesting hypothesis. Although when I eat starch I thought I felt pain, perhaps you have a greater insight. Even though EVERY person on this diet forum who has experienced success has achieved this through careful observation (and often meticulous record keeping) I think the real culprit is the cutlery! Yes, that's it! Every time I eat I use cutlery and guess what happens? I feel pain. With this information in hand I am going to set up my own website called NCD (No Cutlery Diet). I just hope it doesn't get too popular as I run a number of other projects such as Gravity Doesn't Exist Because I Can't See It.com and I Am Right.org.

Jokes a side you are welcome to challenge the NSD. This generally takes place in the main forum. However, as we keep telling you the NSD is a place where people seek information and support to maintain a really annoyingly inconvenient diet. It is not your place or mine to devalue others' experiences. It is impertinent to say just because you achieved no success that others must be in some state of delusion or are genuinely mistaken. Everyday in our daily lives NSDers deal with skeptical friends, family and work colleagues. The NSD forum is welcome relief from our incredulous others.

I have the perfect diet for you. Humble Pie. It's not all about you mate.

Enjoy this forum or your own forum. Life is too short for belligerence. Say what you feel but please refrain from telling intelligent, committed NSDers that they are wrong.

No hard feelings. After 2-3 days of Humble Pie maybe you could switch to a modified diet of Have Your Cake And Eat It. It works a treat.

Laters

Keith

So the only opinion one is allowed to have is YOUR opinion, otherwise it is not welcome. I thought "Humble Pie" has starch in it.

Hmmm (again).

All perspectives are valid, but not at others expense.

Let me reiterate the NSD forum is to support people engaging with the NSD. All opinions are welcome (although of course who am I to say what this forum is for or what is appropriate). Claiming that the diet doesn't work is fine. But you overstep the mark when you state that NSDers may not be as clever as you! In other words they may be deluded. This is how you sound. Perhaps you don't realise this.

It is almost as if you want the diet to fail, antibiotics to fail, to be censored etc...

Read through your posts, take a moment. It is not your rejection of the NSD (although 3 weeks is way too short to judge) but your rejection of the experiences of others. You are telling people on this forum that they are wrong based on your 3 weeks.

Keep posting, keep challenging. All good. But respect your fellow KickASer!

Cheers

Keith (close to 2 1/2 years NSD with continuous steady progress)

PS No Starch Humble Pie ingredients (time, patience, healthy skepticism but respect for the experiences of others)

I was also sceptical to begin with as usually I am the sort of person who trusts the medical community and would consider any 'alternative' treatments to be a load of nonsense and based only on the placebo effect.

However I was in a world of pain before I started the diet and would be willing to try almost anything within reason to reduce the pain. And the diet certainly did that! I have been on a low/no starch diet for about a year now and I have never felt better! Not only have I had no pain, but also less fatigue and less problems with my gut which were also regular before.

I have done as you said actually and came off the low starch diet twice now. The first time was during a holiday in Turkey where it was very difficult to stick to the diet. A week into the holiday I was in a world of pain again in by back, neck and hips. I barely had enough flexibility to put my shoes on, just as it was before I started the diet.

The second time was when last week I decided to test the waters again and added a bit of potato to my diet (the starch I miss the most!). I am paying for that now. Although it is only a low level of pain right now, I do certainly feel it in my hip and it is not pleasant. I am being extra strict again now to try and get back on track.

The diet works.

I would encourage you to persevere but of course nobody can force you to do that and I wish you all the best with whichever path you decide to take. But if you want to say that the diet does not work, then speak for yourself, not everyone else on here.