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#460689 - 01/18/12 09:36 PM vitamins and minerals
Sue22 Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 20604
Loc: Upstate NY
not conclusive, but a start:

http://www.doctoryourself.com/arthritis_II.html

though dairy is a common trigger for arthritis, so i'd say be cautious of that; it is for me.

thanks donette for mentioning the "doctor yourself" website today. that's what got me reading that site.

i want to start vitamin E, but not without my rheumy's supervision. being fat soluble, i could cause my liver more damage rather than heal it if not careful.

and my B12 is already above normal, probably due to my liver, so won't be taking that.

also, not sure about the other B vitamins. more reading........
i've been reading a variety of sites and getting lots of difference of opinion. sorting opinion from fact.

but vitamin C, being water soluble, and from all i've read, i can't find any controversy or words of caution, so will increase that from 1000 mg a day to something higher. still trying to decide how much higher.

already taking a good amount of vitamin D, calcium, and magnesium. i think i'm good with those. and probiotics and fish oil too; happy with those amounts.

just wishing the vitamins and minerals weren't all horse pills......
_________________________


sue

Spondyloarthropathy, HLAB27 negative
Humira (still methylprednisone for flares, just not as often. Aleve if needed, rarely.)
LDN/zanaflex/flector patches over SI/ice
vits C, D. probiotics. hyaluronic acid. CoQ, Mg, Ca, K.
chiro
walk, bike
no dairy (casein sensitivity), limited eggs, limited yeast (bread)

Top
#460692 - 01/18/12 10:06 PM Re: vitamins and minerals [Re: Sue22]
Sue22 Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 20604
Loc: Upstate NY
can anyone suggest a brand, type of vit E to buy?

i like buying through the vitamin shoppe if i can. that's where i get my Ca, Mg, vit C, fish oil, CoQ.
_________________________


sue

Spondyloarthropathy, HLAB27 negative
Humira (still methylprednisone for flares, just not as often. Aleve if needed, rarely.)
LDN/zanaflex/flector patches over SI/ice
vits C, D. probiotics. hyaluronic acid. CoQ, Mg, Ca, K.
chiro
walk, bike
no dairy (casein sensitivity), limited eggs, limited yeast (bread)

Top
#460783 - 01/19/12 10:35 PM Re: vitamins and minerals [Re: Sue22]
sunnypower Offline
Copper_AS_Kicker

Registered: 05/11/10
Posts: 1279
Loc: usa
I know nothing lol but what I've read is that there are alpha and gamma and you may need both? There was an article, online I think, where they were sayin that gamma may be just as, if not MORE important than alpha but most suppliments only have alpha.

As for what brand...
I usually buy online. For me it's waaaaay easier to research a product/ingredients AND I can find exactly what I'm after most of the time. Swanson is online and seem to have their own line that is fairly simple as far as ingredients.
_________________________
AS & Fibro. NSD + no sugar

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#460803 - 01/20/12 05:58 AM Re: vitamins and minerals [Re: sunnypower]
Sue22 Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 20604
Loc: Upstate NY
thanks for the input.

yeh, been reading about the different kinds of E too........more reading.......

will look at that brand, thanks smile
_________________________


sue

Spondyloarthropathy, HLAB27 negative
Humira (still methylprednisone for flares, just not as often. Aleve if needed, rarely.)
LDN/zanaflex/flector patches over SI/ice
vits C, D. probiotics. hyaluronic acid. CoQ, Mg, Ca, K.
chiro
walk, bike
no dairy (casein sensitivity), limited eggs, limited yeast (bread)

Top
#460850 - 01/20/12 09:32 PM Re: vitamins and minerals [Re: Sue22]
Jaybird Offline
Silver_AS_Kicker

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 1461
Loc: The Matrix
A couple of things.

Vitamin D is fat soluble. Vitamin E is fat soluble. Why is it OK to take one and not the other? My pop has liver disease and takes vitamin E, ALA, and selenium. He seems to do fine with it. Food for thought on that one.

Vitamin C is about as toxic as water (which can be toxic if consumed carelessly); take as much as you can bear. If B12 is above normal, are you confident in the test? Nothing to worry about regarding taking more B12 since it is water soluble and needs to be replenished daily. However, if you feel it is likely to pass through you, well, abstain from it I guess. I would rather, however, take too much and make sure my bases are covered. Last time I had mine checked I was out of range (above range). I cover my bases.
_________________________
Kind Regards,
Jay

Almost all of us long for peace and freedom; but very few of us have much enthusiasm for the thoughts, feelings, and actions that make for peace and freedom. - Aldous Huxley

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. - Thomas Jefferson

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#460851 - 01/20/12 09:38 PM Re: vitamins and minerals [Re: Sue22]
Jaybird Offline
Silver_AS_Kicker

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 1461
Loc: The Matrix
Originally Posted By: Sue22
can anyone suggest a brand, type of vit E to buy?


I can't suggest a brand but you may want to look for something with mixed tocopherols and multiple tocotrienols for broadest nutrition.
_________________________
Kind Regards,
Jay

Almost all of us long for peace and freedom; but very few of us have much enthusiasm for the thoughts, feelings, and actions that make for peace and freedom. - Aldous Huxley

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. - Thomas Jefferson

Top
#460952 - 01/22/12 10:11 AM Re: vitamins and minerals [Re: Jaybird]
Sue22 Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 20604
Loc: Upstate NY
funny you should mention vitamin D. most of my doctors were big fans of it. my old endocrinologist gave me antidotal stories to show how it was very hard to take to much / get too much. but then he retired and his replacement freaked out over how much i was taking, but she freaked out about a bunch of other things as well, so i took it all with a grain of salt (like she looked at my list of drugs and supplements that my other doctors had me on, that have helped me feel ALOT better and said she only saw 2 or 3 things on that list that i needed).

still. her "concerns" got me to find the report that i believe she was referring to. while she was WAY off in her information (like saying our vitamin D blood levels should be 20-30 (units?)), i did read the parts of this report that pertained to what i needed to know.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=13050&page=R1

i will now aim for ~60 (units) D showing up in my blood. and will try to do it with ~4000-5000 IU daily. i was shooting before for ~80.

from what i read in that report, vit D and calcium are pretty complex. more is known about calcium and if one takes too much, it does the exact opposite to the bones that we are shooting for. now they recommend more like 1000 mg Ca daily for post menopausal women like me. it had been higher in the past. my rheumy was the first to tell me this, last visit. but he won't give misinformation if he doesn't mention the details, just tell me what he remembers.

vit D is much more up in the air, but all the various data, various studies, etc, its all in that report if you are curious enough to read the pertinent sections. i focussed on the sections regarding how much is too much.

that got me interested in all the fat soluble vitamins. so, like E, i'm now more cautious about D as well.

reading never hurts. i think its up to us to sift through all the data and make informed decisions.

what i hate is when my doctors are at odds with one another. then i have to decide which advice to take, which is fine with me. just hate it when they then give me a hard time because i'm not following their directions. but one can't do two contradictory things at the same time.

so, we read and decide and proceed.


as for C. yes, i agree with that. seems incredibly safe from everything i've read. some people may not think it as useful as others think it is, but, no one seems to think it dangerous in any way that i can see. when i was a senior in college, i read linus paulings book on vitamin C. that book made quite an impact on me.

as for the B12. been trying to contact my GI doc that ordered most of my blood work to check out my liver, to inform him. see if he'd order another B12 test. the only reason i'm concerned about the elevated levels is that i just want to make sure its due to bigger liver problems than any of us realized or leukemia, though i doubt the leukemia angle. still i'm of the same mindset of my GI doc; why assume that which can be tested. have an appointment with the endocrine PA that ordered the B12 blood work. will ask her to reorder the test. that's a first step. when i tried to discuss it with the endocrinologist, she said it wasn't an endocrine issue so she wouldn't discuss it. i need to find another endocrinologist......someone like dr C, who took a much more holistic approach to things, and was much more open minded.

i guess what bugs me is when tests show signs of a problem and doctors note it but do nothing about it. my old GP was like that. this new endocrinologist is like that. but at least my rheumy and GI doc are on top of things.
_________________________


sue

Spondyloarthropathy, HLAB27 negative
Humira (still methylprednisone for flares, just not as often. Aleve if needed, rarely.)
LDN/zanaflex/flector patches over SI/ice
vits C, D. probiotics. hyaluronic acid. CoQ, Mg, Ca, K.
chiro
walk, bike
no dairy (casein sensitivity), limited eggs, limited yeast (bread)

Top
#460960 - 01/22/12 11:26 AM Re: vitamins and minerals [Re: Sue22]
elmerfudd Offline
Fifth_Degree_AS_Kicker

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 395
Loc: north central indiana
I like the way you thinks...

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#460962 - 01/22/12 12:49 PM Re: vitamins and minerals [Re: Sue22]
Jaybird Offline
Silver_AS_Kicker

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 1461
Loc: The Matrix
Leukemia. That is quite a jump from above normal readings on B12 test results. Personally, I think your liver is overburdened due to some infectious organism, hence your elevated enzymes. One that few doctors are willing to discuss. Too political I guess. I suppose my opinion doesn't matter. Were it leukemia, would you not have other signs in your bloodwork? Additionally, you might present to them with other symptoms. Additionally, I think that there would be a lot more urgency on your doctor's part.

I wouldn't worry about medical doctors nutritional information contradicting each other. At least I've found out they usually have no clue about that, are dismissive of it, and only believe toxic drugs or surgery or a procedure or medical device will help. The only nutritional advice I take from any medical doctor is one specifically labeled as integrative. You need to make up your own mind however.

Quote:
...now they recommend more like 1000 mg Ca daily...


Who are "they"?

Quote:
i think its up to us to sift through all the data and make informed decisions.


Exactly. This is why I largely ignore anything any quack has to say about nutrition.

Quote:

i guess what bugs me is when tests show signs of a problem and doctors note it but do nothing about it.


This is why I ignore them. There are plenty of other healthcare providers out there. More than one way to skin a cat I suppose.
_________________________
Kind Regards,
Jay

Almost all of us long for peace and freedom; but very few of us have much enthusiasm for the thoughts, feelings, and actions that make for peace and freedom. - Aldous Huxley

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. - Thomas Jefferson

Top
#461347 - 01/27/12 11:04 PM Re: vitamins and minerals [Re: Jaybird]
Sue22 Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 20604
Loc: Upstate NY
hello again jay,

to address some of your points:

1. one of the best sites i found to discuss what high levels of B12 could mean:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/300753-what-are-the-causes-of-high-blood-levels-of-vitamin-b12/

2. leukemia? not that exactly, i was just being lazy with my words. here's what i'm talking about more specifically. but you are correct, when thinking horses, not zebras, unhappy liver far more likely than this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myelodysplastic-myeloproliferative
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chronic-myelogenous-leukemia/DS00564

i really think its the liver but again, "why assume that which we can measure / test" thus have a doctor doing a CBC with differential. its been awhile since i've had one done. other than my white blood cell count usually being just above normal, nothing suspicious; and that's probably just due to overactive immune system, hence the inflammatory arthritis, which i'm thinking is probably an allergic response to various things (casein, egg protein, silk protein?, mold?, pollen?).

3. liver. based on blood work (slightly high ALT, ~3x my normal at its highest, even less elevated AST, ~2x my normal at its highest, and slightly elevated B12 now, but when ALT less than double normal now, so who knows at its highest) and the fact that the numbers went up for about 6 months, then started coming back down,

the three things that make the most sense: fatty liver due to insulin resistance / metabolic syndrome (i gained 15 lbs in 6 months last year (i blame the nsaids as i never gain like that!), the 4 nsaids i trialed from sept through april, or as you said, a virus of some kind. my doctors think all of those things make sense. and no one is really panicking since the numbers didn't get too high and they are continually receding. i must admit, i did panic at first; mostly because i was afraid i'd have to discontinue my flector patches and/or zanaflex.

4. as for the "urgency" issue. i think the doctors i mesh well with are like me. don't panic, but don't assume either. watch, monitor, test where we can. be cautious, but not overly concerned.

5. the reason i'm as vigilant as i am regarding the liver, cirrhosis of the liver (due to diabetes) runs in my family. that's what my grandmother died from. aunt had it unbeknownst to her at the age of 50 til of course it was discovered. the good thing about me being (probably over) tested so much, is that we can catch things early and intervene.

6. doctors contradicting one another. its not the nutritional / supplement stuff i care about. i can listen to everyone, read, then make a decision based on all the information. what concerned me is that the endocrine PA out of the GYN office and the naturpath wanted to put me on hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue or give me supplements that i've read don't even get through the digestive system on the one hand. and the endocrine, not only going ballistic over the thought of putting me on the hydrocortisone, but telling me "adrenal fatigue is hogwash". who do i believe. she also told me saliva testing for cortisone is bogus while the other doctors believe in it. and that reverse T3 testing is bogus and another doctor gave me book titles so i could go buy books (that i've bought and read) about how all the traditional endocrinologists are wrong in how they treat thyroid, basically the way i've been treated. so, which side do i believe? i'm reading and trying to decide for myself.

7. They? concerning Ca and D?

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=13050&page=R1

i didn't read all ~1100 pages, but did skim the important parts pertaining to how much Ca and D i should be taking. happy with my decisions for now.

ok, i think that's all. been coming back to this for the last few hours, been busy in the lab, but i think that's it for now
_________________________


sue

Spondyloarthropathy, HLAB27 negative
Humira (still methylprednisone for flares, just not as often. Aleve if needed, rarely.)
LDN/zanaflex/flector patches over SI/ice
vits C, D. probiotics. hyaluronic acid. CoQ, Mg, Ca, K.
chiro
walk, bike
no dairy (casein sensitivity), limited eggs, limited yeast (bread)

Top
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