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#318478 - 11/25/08 09:26 PM phytin (phytic acid) and prevention of ankylosis
doh Offline

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 48
i've been reading recently about mouse studies in which phosphocitrate is given to mice with AS like disease. ankyloses is dramatically reduced for these mice. similar results have been noted with other forms of calcium deposition diseases in animals when given phosphocitrate.

i cant find any mention of phosphocitrate being administered to humans. but. . .

these findings were in part the reason for the pamidronate trials in AS. pamidronate (a bisphosphonate)is a close cousins of phosphocitrate (and pyridophsophate), and it was hoped the effect of bisphosphonates in humans would be similar to the effect of phosphocitrates in mice. (note, bisphosphonate (specifically pamidronate) were tried in mice, wihtout any effect on ankylosis at all).

as we all know, the effect of pamidronate in people with AS was not dramatic, though it was significant. unfortunately, the people in those trials were not followed for radiographic progression!

anyway. . there is a similar compound called phytin which is found naturally in our diets, certain foods are rich in it (seeds and beans mostly). phytin has been shown in rodents to inhibit calcification of soft tissues (specifically dermis), even when administered through diet.

im making a huge leap here, but might a diet rich in phytins be helpful for people too, and perhaps more so for people with AS?

. . does anyone know if there is a reason we arent trying phosphocitrate(s)in people?

#318479 - 11/26/08 10:12 PM Re: phytin (phytic acid) and prevention of ankylosis [Re: doh]
doh Offline

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 48
well, ill reply to my own post. more reading today about tgf-beta, one of the cytokines inhibited by phosphocitrate - amongst other things.

tgf-beta comes in several forms it appears, and is responsible for many things in our bodies. repairing tissues, and potentiating scarring/fibrosis/sclerosis is one of them.

BUT, tgf-beta clearly has a role in causing heart tissue to repair itself in an unorganized fashion after heart attacks. this is one of the reasons people get ACE inhibitors after a heart attack, and why they are effective, beyond their effect of reducing blood pressure and afterload. "remodeling". ACE inhibitors in part seem to accomplish this by inhibiting the effect of tgf-beta (by inhibiting angiotensin II). ACE inhibitors are thought to reduce scarring in the kidnies as well by this same effect.

in fact, there are mouse studies where tgf-beta antibodies are given after little mouse heart attacks have been induced, and voila - better survival, less scar tissue and less hypertrophy of heart tissue.

tgf-beta inhibition is also being tested in several cancers.

anyway - would taking an ACE (to inhibit angiotensis II, to reduce tgf-beta activity) be helpful for people like us? to prevent scarring (ultimately ankylosis) of the inflamed tissues?

#318480 - 11/27/08 10:22 AM Re: phytin (phytic acid) and prevention of ankylosis [Re: doh]
Zernike Offline

Registered: 09/21/08
Posts: 227
Loc: Arizona, U.S.A.
Probably not a helpful response, unless you are considering the NSD... but I can't eat beans and most seeds because of the starch content. So, the challenge would be a safe source, unless it comes in a supplemental, starch-free capsule.
There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as if everything is. - Albert Einstein

#318481 - 11/27/08 06:02 PM Re: phytin (phytic acid) and prevention of ankylosis [Re: Zernike]
doh Offline

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 48
it does come as a supplement, or so i have just discovered. not sure if it is in a startch free capsule though.

#516508 - 01/27/17 06:30 AM Re: phytin (phytic acid) and prevention of ankylosis [Re: doh]
KA_Bob Offline

Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 32
Loc: Shanghai
ip6(phytin) for arthiritis? not found


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