Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Simple Sugars cause Klebsiella to grow (study)

I cite first:
FIGURE 11: Mean number of Klebsiella pneumoniae microorganisms following 24-hour culture using different carbohydrates and amino acids as substrates. [this shows relatively higher numbers of the bacteria if fed with these sugars listed]


Source: A. Ebringer, M. Baines, M. Childerstone, M. Ghuloom, and T. Ptaszynska
Immunology Unit, Department of Biochemistry, Queen Elizabeth College, University of London, and Department of Rheumatology, The Middlesex Hospital, London Wl, England

So I conclude that simple white sugar, milk and all fruits cause Klebsiella to grow. However, I don't know how much growth is needed to cause inflammation. Also many people report that sugar and especially fruits are no problem (confused). Is it for everyone like that?
What is your experience? Any other thoughts?

Thanks for the post. I think one thing to consider is that growth in a culture is not the same as growth in human under real conditions. For instance, if the sugar is absorbed prior to reaching the stage in digestion where the Kleb can access the energy. Starch in particular is known to be long digesting. This could also point to the value of food combining. For example, if high sugar foods are eaten after slow digesting fats and proteins, perhaps it could have an impact similar to starch.

I am not well studied in this area, so I am interested in others' responses.

Hello, AlexR:

Although Your conclusion is quite correct, the practical application of this opinion would be rather difficult: If You tried to design an experiment, how best would You feed simple sugars to our nemesis bacterium in situ?

If we actually EAT sugars, the overwhelming majority of these molecules are absorbed in the stomach, which should be about 20 feet away from the ileocecal region and bowel, where the germs congregate.

Because the normal pathway is not suitable for supplying the germ with its favorite food, a glucose enema might be one solution!

Well, since You have brought up this concept, it is good to review the overall mechanism of AS, which is molecular mimicry, and understanding that sugars can be used directly by the bacterium which multiplies in the presence of suitable foods. The issue with the germ is only indirectly with the germ itself; our objection (reaction) to the germ is not that it exists, but what it does. Klebsiella manufactures enzymes for the purpose of reducing starches to sugars, and it is really these enzymes to which we react because they approximate too closely a sequence offered by our Osp--the HLA B27 antigen.

Most people with AS should be able to eat sugar with impunity, but many patients (ALL, to some varying degree) have the misfortune of having a condition candidiasis, which will feed on dietary sugar and also increase gut permeability. Additionally, when I said that our germs hang out in the bowel, I knew I would have to tell You this now: I am certain that I had, and believe that most of us also have, colonies of our nemesis germ established within our small intestine--a condition that is called "dysbiosis" which very few physicians acknowledge albeit naturopaths nearly all recognize.

And I am confident in saying that colonies establish and expand with age--the SECONDARY reason AS is a Delayed Onset Heritable Condition.

There is a lot more about this covered in the literature that Professor Ebringer has so graciously provided; to avoid being even more tedious, I encourage people to read through this material that some of us who attended Ebringer's two state side lectures can answer any questions that people might have.

HEALTH,
John

Dear John, could you provide a link to the extensive literature on this matter?

It makes sence that you will get higher growth of bacteria in sugars since sugars are pure energy. And bacteria love easy energy thats why they feed on starch.

Also when I eat a chocolate I get extream pain, which makes sence now.

By doing NSD you starve the bacteria, therefore you have less pain.

Sure, Alex:

Extensive literature

HEALTH,
John

John,
Are there many Filipinos with AS? I read you are from the Philippines and in the above forum you mention “delayed onset heritable”. I am a Mestizo Pinay and i have been reading much these last few weeks about AS and i find my symptoms to be a bit different than others and I wonder about heredity and race.
Respectfully,
ML

I concur!

And I would like to add that I suspect that the fungus especially expands but holds its gained ground; given that its cellular chemistry is very similar to human's then it is very hard for our immune system to push it back. I feel that it just gains ground and forces us to eat less and less sugar as time goes on. I would love to be corrected on this impression. The form of carbohydrate has different effects on me -- simple sugar, soluble starch, insoluble and resistant starch. I can only eat insoluble and some resistant starch.

Hello, ML:

My wife is Filipina; I am narrow W. European genetics. We are in Philippines now (SFLU).

About 4% of the congregate Filipino population is susceptible to AS, so the rate is about half the rest of the world, but I have seen and there have even been news stories about people here with AS.

Every case of AS is different, but if a person is HLA B27 positive and has just a few of the chronic symptoms, the chances of AS are near-absolute certain.

HEALTH,
John

Hello, Robin_H:

Yes, I am certain of the role of fungal infection in the exacerbation of AS and many of us, with non-traumatic (slow) onset of AS, were gut compromised and developed AS as a result of this overgrowth.

Then, as You have observed, we are in a tough dietary situation.

HEALTH,
John