http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMU9d67ShoQ

Thanks for that. Watched it and another seminar of his.

Makes me think if its so systemic and not just isolated to the gut, maybe why fecal transplants have a way to go for chronic illness.

That blood pressure med that also works on the innate immune system sounded really promising though

Desperate recording - great difficulty in listening as there was so much crackle and pop ! However, managed to get the gist of it. Interesting. So, Marshall reckons that the DEMARDS and biotherapies make disease worse in the long run...Ho-Hum.

Sue, which was the drug for hypertension ? The only drug I could pick out was the Olmesartan, which is a BP med (I have a packet of of it here, but don't take due to side effects). Was there another drug, perhaps in a different video ? Could you clarify please.

Thanks -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0y0PcVJ5Ss

This is on Olmesartan. Facinating. So, by combining Olmesartan with an antibiotic one can manage (cure?) autoimmune disease including AS...

See there are more video presentations on the same subject, gotta go listen to em !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2yEwnZy8B8

On Vit-D and Olmesartan. Ended in a muddle. Marshall was pulled up by one very bright 'chair', and was asked to clarify between a 'D' and a 'D'. Will have to go back to try and untangle - the accent of the 'chair' was very thick. Would so like to read a transcription ! (But, gotta get on, and go attend my class, to try and learn French...)

There's a website for the Marshall Protocol with a lot of information. You can join the forum and ask questions, if you like.
A young very bright lady who had chronic fatigue started a site called bacteriality (I think, I'll have to get the link). She writes articles about the Marshall protocol that are easy to understand.
I did the complete avoidance of Vitamin D for several months, but wasn't willing to take the antibiotics because of being allergic to penicillin at a young age and then getting sick from other antibiotics (and actually any medicine). They said if you didn't do the antibiotics you would never get better. I didn't believe them, and I did get better without them.
There's a lot to learn from Dr. Marshall, but I wouldn't do the protocol. I don't take any medicine, though, so if you need to get off a medicine with dangerous side effects, it could be worthwhile.

Hello. I don't know much about the Marshall protocol. Heard it has been criticised for beeing not enought scientific. Anyway, what I found interresting was the link with microbiome wich seems for me more and more obvious everyday. I'm probably not aware of every researchs but I 've got the feeling that actually much more money and communication are on the side of immuno-regulation. I guess it will change soon.
One question. Recently they prooved that the lack of bacteria Arkkemansia could cause obesity. Very soon they might do pre or probiotics to help you loose weight. An other study about AS shown that the microbiome of people with AS didn't have much of this bacteria that seems to live in the intestinal mucus. Did somebody heard about it?

I also found this pdf (hope the link is working)called "Microbiome Research Priority Workshop Report". Interrestings points on page 4.

http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arthritisresearchuk.org%2Fresearch%2F~%2Fmedia%2F849B81B26285441DA25C0A044B1D5C72.ashx&ei=Pk3VUvT0EaX30gXeuoC4DQ&usg=AFQjCNHBdjNNIeZmGUxDdDGrVLCr5b3ipA&sig2=yJ-ExirlvKtvRSc9-XrURw&bvm=bv.59378465,d.d2k

The bacteria is "Akkermansia" sorry.

I've read about the microbiome being balanced by the immune system. The Th1 branch is responsible for dealing with bacteria, virii, and fungi. Getting that in good working order would be one way of fixing the gut issue.

Yes, you're right, and more than that, the microbiome could probably be considered as a part of the immune système himself: bacterias don't let the new (and bad) ones find a place in the body. Moreover, if the immune système modify the microbiome, it's very likely that the microbiome also shapes the système. So it seems quite complexe but I'm sure those discoverys will lead to many cures (maybe for obesity, autisme, some auto immunes problèmes etc.)
Actually they just found the microbiome DNA three years ago. It was much more complexe than expected, and some doctors said this groupe of symbiotic bacterias could be considered as an organ that we never heard of before.

That was really interesting! Found it incredibly informative.

Yes, it was the Olmesartan.

http://www.spondylitis.org/members/49.aspx

Here's another one :
Does the Microbiome Cause Ankylosing Spondylitis
By James Rosenbaum, MD

Winter 2011 Issue of Spondylitis Plus

This from SAA, Spondylitis Association America

Thanks !

A lot of research has been done between when that article was published (about 2 years ago) and now.

I don't think the HLAB27 gene dictates the microbiome, but may influence the effect that microbiome has on an individual.

And the research I've seen over and over again in the last 2 years has been human studies where they analyze the microbiome of "healthy" humans vs humans with said disease and compare the microbiome, and they see correlations. The healthy individuals will have one microbiome, the individuals with the specific disease will have a similar one, and different from the healthy one.

I've seen these correlation studies for: obesity, heart disease, diabetes, spondyloarthropathies like crohns and UC, RA, bipolar, etc.

Where the research seems to be is in understanding how the bacteria cause the various diseases, the molecular processes that lead to disease.

Animal studies have their place as well, but its been the human studies correlating bacterial gut populations with a specific disease and comparing that to healthy individuals that has caused me to sit up and pay attention.

One of the most recent article I found on the topic was this one :
http://arthritis-research.com/content/15/3/214

I may have posted it before but I don't get one word, it's extremly technical..

The Marshall Protocol uses the olmesartan for controlling the issues that the antibiotic causes when it's killing off the bacteria. They consider it dealing with intracellular bacteria. They consider, too, the vitamin d receptor to be compromised in some way, maybe by the bacteria, I'm not sure it's been a long time since I read there.
You actually take high dosages of olmesartan, and not for bp, it works for reducing inflammation. The only other thing that they say can do what the olmesartan does is quercitin.
Sometimes just avoiding vitamin d, all vitamin d, even sunlight, can activate the immune system enough to start the killing of bacteria. That can be why when the days start to get shorter and grayer, aches and pains can start to set in. Very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myBACBRxyq0

and a cute cartoon about microbiome :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DTrENdWvvM

Great links!

I have set up an appointment with Dr.Blaney, who was giving the lecture on olmesartan. It's a very costly investment and would like to get the most of my time with him. Admittedly, I'm a constant sucker for snake oil. All of the people on this thread seem very intelligent and am hoping that someone understands a few points better than myself. Do you think it's worth the visit? In his lecture, is he saying that his test subjects were given olmestartan for the full 5 year duration? There's a generic version of the olmesartan available at 1 fifth the price, too;
http://mpkb.org/home/mp/olmesartan/buying
I'm excited to meet him and am looking forward to relaying helpful info to my fellow kickas'ers.
Advice is appreciated and if there are any specific questions you guys think would be helpful, I'll try to include them in my health consultation.

Also, I'm having difficulties figuring out what to do/not to do with Vit D. And to make it even more confusing, it's not even a vitamin! There were a lot of variables leading up to my current bout of iritis but one of them was the inclusion of 5000IU vitD daily. Does anyone feel confident enough in their knowledge of AS and vit D to put it into lay men terms for me and possibly others to benefit from?

I'm running late for work, but I just wanted to say a few things about the olmesartan, Vit d, and Marshall protocol.

I didn't watch the video about the olmesartan, so I don't know what that particular doctor that you're going to visit has to say about it, but the Marshall protocol, which is how the subject came up, uses it to regulate herxheimer reaction to taking antibiotics. In other words, the antibiotics are doing the job, olmesartan is just on cleanup.

With respect to Vitamin D, I have thought about it in the picture that the Marshall protocol presents. I have avoided all vit d, including light, for a couple of months, and here's what I think today.(It could change:)

Marshall says it's absolutely necessary to avoid all d, but I don't think that's so good of an idea. I don't think it's good to take supplements, though. I think that he does not consider that there are other ways to work on the problem. One of the alternatives is taking Vitamin A, which has great immune system activation properties, and Vit K2, which, from what I read at westonaprice.org, may be the key to dealing with the dirty VDR problem.

Have you checked the bacteriality website, Amy seems to have written good understandable articles, but of course, she's totally Marshall Protocol.

Just another way to look at it.

Interesting that your iritis showed up after supplementing Vit D. Vit D suppresses the branch of the immune system that is responsible for dealing with bacteria, virii, and fungi. Vitamin A activates it. You don't want to go too low carb, if your Th2 branch immune system isn't up to par, that can make things worse in the long run.

That was a really good concise video. Nothing new to me,

but a really good place to start for those who don't know.

Thanks for posting it.

Nice! Thanks Violeta. I'm curious to know if what this guy would recommend would be much different than roadback foundation in collaboration with my rheumy. Guess I won't know unless I meet him.

http://academy.asm.org/images/stories/documents/FAQ_Human_Microbiome.pdf

http://yottafire.com/2014/01/gene-varian...s-human-body-2/

Rob Knight - The Microbiome Project
http://vimeo.com/82331362

Getting Your Microbes Analyzed Raises Big Privacy Issues

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/11/...-privacy-issues

thanks for that as I've been considering doing it.

I'll probably still do it, but good to know….

Restricting Calories May Extend Longevity, Study Finds

http://www.asianscientist.com/in-the-lab/caloric-restriction-longevity-2013/

I heard m

I've heard many things about fasting and arthritis, but no study was explaining the health improvement by the microbiota's change. Hope the link will soon be done in a real scientific work.

Calorie restriction for increased lifespan has been observed for years now. Knowledge on the human (gut) microbiome's link to disease has been increasing exponentially in recent years.

First time I've seen the link between the two. Good information!

I found this to be very good:

http://blogs.plos.org/publichealth/2013/...-of-the-reason/

Interesting. I recently saw the movie "Dallas buyers club" that shows the struggle of a man against FDA. This is not a masterpiece but worth to see it.
Also, one year ago i quited cigarette, and it really changed my life, even if I'm not cured yet. Researchs recently prooved that the use (or not) of tobbaco got impact on the microbiome. That's why people who quit are often getting fat.
Moreover some studys linked anti TNF to weight gain, I would not be estonished if it was once again related to bacterias.
So there are many ways to influence the microbiota's composition.
FMT is one of them, but it's still experimental (and that's a shame because it was invented many years ago.). Personally I don't feel sick enought to do it, I mean, I prefere to wait a few years because medicine will probably improve a lot. But, I believe it is a duty to spread this information because many people are suffering without even knowing what is the microbiota, like I use to do only 6 months ago. And, many websites- in France at least, probably paid by the industry - are not in a hurry to share the news.

I had the bacteria in my gut analysed. And this may be the future of medicine （the Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/feb/11/gut-biology-health-bacteria-future-medicine

MicroBiome Therapeutics™ Reports Positive Top-Line Results From Clinical Trial Of Microbiome Modulator NM504 In Type 2 Diabetes

http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/1742203

Gene Variants in Immune System Pathways Correlated With Composition of Microbes of Human Body

http://yottafire.com/2014/01/gene-varian...s-human-body-2/

Sweet taste receptors in nose tell immune system when to kick in, Penn team finds

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local...when-to-kick-in

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth...d-to-arthritis/


Gum disease may be linked to arthritis

Here's a link to a blogspot that's been focusing on rebalancing the microbiome.

http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-to-cure-sibo-small-intestinal-bowel_18.html

Genetic And Microbiome Discoveries Point The Way To New Treatments For IBD

http://www.sys-con.com/node/2993968

HLA-B27 Influence On The Gut Microbiome

http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/acrmeeting/abstract.asp?MeetingID=799&id=109863

Larry Smarr - The Human Microbiome and the Revolution in Digital Health

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdkVDKWrmOQ

Biotech Startup uBiome: Crowdsourcing the Human Microbiome

http://archive.wired.com/geekdad/2012/11/ubiome/

VizbiPlus aims to improve how biological science is communicated via scientifically accurate animations :
http://vizbi.org/Plus/

A french team from Incerm just discoverd a bacteria that is related to lymphocyte regulation :

CD4CD8αα Lymphocytes, A Novel Human Regulatory T Cell Subset Induced by Colonic Bacteria and Deficient in Patients with Inflammatory Bowel Disease

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1001833

Easier article, but in french :
http://presse-inserm.fr/une-bacterie-du-microbiote-protege-le-gros-intestin-dune-inflammation/12150/

human gut microbiome and it's influence on chronic pain and disease.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcl2_DpxhtQ

lool - *amazing webcast. Was riveted. Have now got them bookmarked. These guys are soooo on the nail. Their small fibre neuropathy - WOW. Got my own problem down to a 'T'.

Have shared the information onwards - think ALL medical students should be made to watch every single webcast and ALL rheumatologists and GPs 'before' being let loose on us poor patients <VBG> Yes, likely to happen, not, but we can share and disseminate the excellent information.

Thanks - good one, in fact, all those links you have put up

I'm glad you liked it. . American Autoimmune Related Diseases Association to Host Groundbreaking Microbiome Scientific Meeting in May http://www.newswise.com/articles/america...-meeting-in-may

Microbiome Changes Linked to Childhood Spondyloarthritis - See more at: http://www.diagnosticimaging.com/acr-201...h.Caa1GIXK.dpuf



People with crhon and AS don t have enough of this anti-inflammatory bug



Edited by jeffo (05/04/14 05:50 PM)

The Translational Microbiome Research Forum is an online resource for scientists engaged in translational microbiome research to access current, topical information and to provide a platform to exchange knowledge and ideas.

http://www.translationalmicrobiome.org/

A new study shows that a probiotic available commercially in the US for fortifying the digestive system, has effects beyond the gastrointestinal tract: it may also have effects against non-gut inflammation such as in psoriasis and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS).

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/264719.php

Also available in the UK under the name Bimuno. Inexpensive. Must get back to taking it again.

http://www.bimuno.com/prebiotic-power-fo...CFdShtAodiwwASA

Bifidobacterium Infantis 35624 - Bimuno.com
www.bimuno.com/
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(114 reviews) 5.0 out of 5.0
Buy Bimuno Prebiotics Online with Free Delivery & Feel the Difference
Diarrhoea & Constipation - Immune Health - Irritable Bowel Syndrome - Travel Health

Also available from Boots the chemist (UK)

So you did try "B. infantis 35624" before? Any joint improvement?

Hi lool - no change in joint inflammation, but don't think I tried it for long enough. Only had one box and then had to wait for someone coming over to bring me further supplies. Fraid I was then totally lax about taking it !

Will do a re-try !

Hi Molly,
I'll might try too. Anyway, I'm pretty sûre it's just the first efficient probiotic of a long list to come. Psoriasis and cfs look close to AS for me, so it might be good for us, at least it's probably not bad.
Have a nice night.

Microbiome therapy gains market traction

Wave of investment suggests drugs from body-dwelling bacteria are heading for the clinic.

http://www.nature.com/news/microbiome-therapy-gains-market-traction-1.15210

Exercise Tied to Gut Microbiome Diversity

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/GeneralEndocrinology/46240

Synthetic Biologics, Enterome enter pact on microbiome research to support C. difficile programme

http://www.pharmabiz.com/NewsDetails.aspx?aid=82399&sid=2

Seres Makes Push for First Drug, and IPO, of Microbiome Era

http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2014/07/16/seres-makes-push-for-first-drug-and-ipo-of-microbiome-era/

Excellent news!

While (inherited) chronic illness is more challenging, I see this as a first step, and believe its only a matter of time

Fasting for three days can regenerate entire immune system, study finds

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1...tudy-finds.html

Thanks for the article... enjoyed it and forwarded to a friend of mine.

I fast 1 day each week for over a year now. First 10 months apples.. now just water and tea every Thursday for past 3 months. Has made huge difference in past year for me. I feel stronger, people think I have gotten younger and did not have cold entire year (despite family having several).

I may need to look into occasional 3 day fast 1-2 times a year.

Tim

Microbiome and Probiotics: Link to Arthritis

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/826570

What immunology did next

With the basics of immunity nutted out, focus is now on the surprising connections between our immune system and the rest of our body and beyond, writes Idan Ben-Barak.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/09/10/4071725.htm

Here's some more fodder for that canon -

Commensal bacteria help orchestrate immune response in lung
Posted: 11 Sep 2014 01:32 PM PDT
Signals from the bacteria that harmlessly -- and often beneficially -- inhabit the human gastrointestinal tract boost the immune system's ability to kill a major respiratory pathogen, Klebsiella pneumoniae, according to a study conducted on mice.

American Society for Microbiology. "Commensal bacteria help orchestrate immune response in lung." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 11 September 2014. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140911163221.htm>.

Wow, thank you, that's a real news, it should have it's own topic!

From the article:


This seems to me an argument against using antibiotics. (In my case, I am still mulling the idea of using antibiotics - seem to change my mind several times a day)

Well, at least it's an argument for pré / probiotics that more and more doctors (should?) give when antibiotics are used. Hopefully researchs will improve it very soon.

Microbiome science needs a healthy dose of scepticism

William P. Hanage

20 August 2014

http://www.nature.com/news/microbiology-...pticism-1.15730

Vaginal microbe yields novel antibiotic

Drug is one of thousands that may be produced by the human microbiome.


http://www.nature.com/news/vaginal-microbe-yields-novel-antibiotic-1.15900

Bioinformatics Tool Shows Impact Of Probiotics On Gut Microbiota

http://www.science20.com/news_articles/b...crobiota-144773

Sugar Substitutes, Gut Bacteria, and Glucose Intolerance

The consumption of artificial sweeteners results in glucose intolerance mediated by changes in the gut microbiota in both mice and humans, researchers report.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.v...se-Intolerance/

I love this line:

Scientists and science writers are so much more honest than doctors.

The typical human ‘microbiome’ includes several viruses, project reveals

http://dailydigestnews.com/2014/09/the-t...roject-reveals/

It's true here, because medecine is an art, and art is a lie. A beautiful one if it's possible. However pure scientists may sometimes believe they are god, but this microbiome topic seems too new for them to do so.

I don't believe I've ever had a dishonest doctor and each reads and discusses scientific research with me.

Well, among evry doctors I recently saw, very few -almost none in fact- told me about microbiome, so I was a bit surprised to learn by myself there was a link between it and inflammation. That's why I spend so much time sharing informations. I don't say doctors are all liars or not usefull, but it seems very hard for them to admit they sometimes ignore something.

An exemple of communication between bacterias and cells

Prions can trigger ‘stuck’ wine fermentations, researchers find

http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=11008

Dietary modulation of the microbiome affects autoinflammatory disease

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature13788.html